"The Pride of Vice" VvV Event - Sunday, May 24th 3:30pm-5:00pm EST

[Lore Denin]

Glad everyone had fun

  I will continue to run events if only for myself.  I do not let griefers or cheaters altar my game play.  I have dealt with them all through my playing times in Order and Factions and can keep myself and others from being griefed. 

  If people chose to wait until this cancer called Diablo either crawls back under his rock or I get a solid agreement among the major participants BA, IPKU, MAD!, Gil, TDO and Lore to remove him from events if he shows, that is fine.  Participation is always optional and should always be fun.  If the events are not meeting those expectations wait until they do again. 

  Obviously TDO is unlikely to be part of that agreement though Mish has helped me against Diablo in the past.... Really if you just leave if he shows that would be enough.

  I am not a Freja hater however, to be fair I'd cut her some slack, she is a nice person that wants to see the best in people.  I doubt she is helping Diablo because she supports greifers and cheaters,  sounds like Diablo has tricked many people in his years here. We are forced to admit he is both hard to kill, and he excels at manipulating people even if she believes it or not.

 
  Gilfane is correct in that he has single handedly ruined events through his actions and the people he has brought onto the shard to help him.  Pillars of the community like Mike D, etc.  Anyone helping him as to be viewed as part of the problem and dealt in the same manner as Diablo himself.  Most people when they are killed and not looted respond accordingly but each time he has had a chance to show a better side of himself, he has failed.  I have tried to help him by keeping him from getting looted the first times he died,  over the first three events...  Never once did he kill someone and not loot them...  I heard he needs things...  but I do think he dropped a couple of mil on hair dye at last auctions...  me thinks the difference between wants and needs are not understood.

   Freja if you want to really help Diablo out tell him not to come to events and stop babying him.  A normal person would say "wow the people running event don't want me to show because I acted like a moron.  I'll stop coming until I am invited back"  If he is going to grow up like you claim, he has to do it, you can't do it for him.  It will be best for everyone involved if he and anyone he is associated stop coming and allow people who would participate and have fun continue.  I am sorry he is not the person you hoped he would be but he isn't.  Its not your fault, he just isn't ready for this type of responsibility and behavior to fit in with others.

  -Lore
 
   

[Ander]

i took a couple of days to process this event before making a post, as i was filled with emotion as i see everyone else posting here was as well....as GIL i did not feel comfortable seeing freja die so many times as she is really not the target of the anger but she did try to stand up for one of her allies, even tho that ally is the scum of the earth, and persona non grata. as GIL i felt this was not our best moment but ya know what i also feel you guys and gals are HUMAN and i rejoyce in that....everyone that is human does not behave perfectly at all times, how well i know this as just a few weeks ago yall put up with me behaving similarly after i was killed and looted.....when i was guilded i remember Hoffs making it very clear that we GIL dont just run around killing for no reason or no gain from it....now as for how to deal with freja may i offer some insight for you: we scandanvians have had loyalty bred into us for thousands of yrs if we were not loyal to the earl/warlord we were killed so dont try to break her loyalty by asking her to kill an ally, that just triggers the loyalty button and as u see she will die over and over to show her loyalty. we need to show her that altho she trusts diablo, he does not trust her, or anyone else ever, as he just sees others as marks to be exploited. for me, if she is attacking and fighting back or healing  diablo, then remove her from the battlefield equation by killing holding her stuff its a tuff call to make and really not the best situation to be in. if for example she was the only one left alive while her allies were all killed, now that would make em start to test that trust situation, things like that will make her realize that the trust she has in diablo is a one way thing and just let diablo work his magic to ruin his realtionship with her the same as every other person he has exploited, prolly in his whole, pathetic life

[Freja]

Thanks to both Andre and Lore and sorry for the mess I made, but I have to do it this way.

Now about trust, trust is a funny thing, we had a captain on a ship sealing with young trouble kids to make them grow up. He told, if he had a thief between them, he would make him treasurer to take care of the box with money and that trust he showed the thief would make the thief so proud, that he could trust him.

I'm not naive, I know Diablo have his kid moments, I would never co-own him to my houses but I only do that to very few people. I'm mom to 2 grown up boys and I sure have some stuff I did in the teens, I'm not proud of. I can't changes it but I can help others.

This is not RL, it's a virtuel world. If I'm killed here, I get a new life. We do not have evil monsters in RL, we do here. To me, PK's are a kind of evil monsters, just much more challengende.

I know, Diablo had done realy nasty thing in the past and he need to prove himself worthy to being a part of the community. Thats not done in few days, it may take months of years.

That do not mean he will stop killing player or stop looting. I tryed at last event, not this one, to get a deal with him about no looting at the event. I believe only thing, that stopped me from get that deal was, GIL told me, they would not agree to not loot him if I could get the deal. I had to tell Diablo, I failed to get the deal. Had GIL told me, they would agree unless he started to loot, it had been possible.

Now at my event first week in June, I will ask all and I do mean all to give it a chance and only loot the yellow bag until someone start looting other stuff in the zones for the event.

I know, there can be players, who missed the info about the event, send them to stratics to read or point them to an ingame book. I will start copy the event info to ingame books and lock them down at public houses own and drop copies in mailboxes I see

[Wolfman]

So be it, I have no more to say, I am who I am and I have to do it my way.

And I was realy hoping this was the end of this!

We get it Freja: You want to give him a chance!
We also get it that you do not want to see that he is using Hacks, Cheats and scripts while you fight next to him.

So there are two points we will never agree on.
No need to repeat them over and over again!

[Freja]

We also get it that you do not want to see that he is using Hacks, Cheats and scripts while you fight next to him.

Let me correct this.

I do not want him to use Hacks, Cheats and scripts while me fight next to him or him fighting when I'm not there. If he want to get a better standing on Siege, he have to prove he is worthy to it!

We get it Freja: You want to give him a chance!

I want to help him changes, I see nothing wrong in that.

we will never agree

Here I believe you are right

[Branwyn of Errol]

A scroll arrived yesterday at my garden retreat in Zento concerning the recent arrival ( or should it be return) of a certain Diablo Thantis aka Hacking Tamer, LIE et.al. And all of the havoc he is wreaking on the citizens of the shard and their activities is lamentable but no one should either loose heart or be deceived. He is being very open, in the names he bears, about who he is.
If someone arrives on our shores with a name such as Mr.Nastytime do we expect that he will be a philanthropist? If a guild chooses to be called IPKU or FYOU do they not proclaim that they are hostile and combative in general? The name Diablo Thantis (Thanatos is Greek for death) is the name of the one who"was a murderer from the beginning, a liar and the father of lies". "Hacking Tamer" as a name is a pretty in your face way of saying "I am a hacker, scriptor etc." And LIE, well with a name like that, or the other two he has chosen, should I believe anything he says or want to have any dealings with him if I don't want to wade into muddy waters?
Nor ought we be amazed that among his allies is a self proclaimed Vampire and leader of an outlaw gang. It is their nature to be attracted to evil.
OOC: I am not making any judgement about the person  or persons role playing these characters, but as a very old veteran player who enjoys the role laying aspect of the game, I would tend to take a character's name as  often suggestive of what to expect from them.

[Lore Denin]

Thank you everyone for the comments and constructive conversation.

  Morgan and Freja may not agree and may never agree but I find that I agree with them both

  I am going update my VvV post for Origin shard and then begin one on Siege.  It lists guilds that are Virtue, Vice, unknown and I'll add a new Category called Betrayers.  These are guilds/characters who are griefers, cheaters, scammers, etc and rp wise are seen as traitors to both causes and the enemies of both Vice and Virtue.

  Guilds and players who help and support people in the Betrayer category will be themselves listed as Betrayers until they withdraw support. Support is defined as helping someone on the battle field.  No one is required to attack them but I will be asking all Vice and Virtue guilds to cease hostilities against each other while anyone in the Betrayer group is present.

  This is how we dealt with issues in Order/Chaos because some Order guilds were just pk guild with an Order Tag.  For example say a group of Yew Militia, Lore, and Royal Knights were fighting URK, drow and Temple of Mondain...  The battle is going well,  all agree not to loot and once someone is killed they leave the area...  Then a red guild shows OWnZ...   thinking to take advantage pick off a few stragglers and get their things...

  But now all the guilds have stopped fighting and focus on removing the bad element.  Even though the REd PK guild may have the better pvpers, its 5-6 against 40 and the battle is quickly over.  Enemies are dry looted, they don't come back and the war continues...

  This was the cornerstone of having successful rp wars, along with Order/Chaos and factions for years. When I get back into town this Sat.  It will be my focus to create a OC network among allies and enemies so all of us can avoid being looted and griefed and the fun elements that people are enjoying will remain.
 
  We won't be asking much, 1 hour and a half a week during events... outside events players, guilds, etc can conduct themselves as they see fit but usually people begin to see how contributing to this community fosters growth and removes elements holding that growth back and you tend to see more pro-social interactions from allies and enemies.

-Lore 
         

[Branwyn of Errol]

Sounds good Lore. Thank you.

[Kael]

Diablo will never change. He has been scamming and cheating for as long as he has been playing. Maybe the kid change be a decent person outside of the game...but in the game he is just another dirt bag.

[kelmo]

I do like yer style Lore Denin. *grins*

[Freja]

Guilds and players who help and support people in the Betrayer category will be themselves listed as Betrayers until they withdraw support. Support is defined as helping someone on the battle field.  No one is required to attack them but I will be asking all Vice and Virtue guilds to cease hostilities against each other while anyone in the Betrayer group is present.

TDO* can agree to this, even when we may not help taking the Betrayer group down.

[Lore Denin]

Thanks Freja that will go a long way to helping events moving forward.

Lore

[MrNasty]

Just for the record, I am a philanthropist.