GIL member attempting to get Shalimar to isolate NEW from Siege discord

[Shalimar]

When I turned on my icq today, I had messages from one of your members, sent yesterday. The messages were about Siege discord. The person who sent these messages to me said I should not be calling out in general chat for players to join it if I want NEW to be neutral, and leading NEW players to the Siege discord is even worse, because of 'those kind of comments Vice were posting' also, that in this players view it is Vice discord and not Siege discord.

Here is a copy of my reply to your guild mate: "It's Siege discord server, just as Siege stratics is for Siege, everyone can post. NEW is neutral, no changes there. If any comments bother you, just say so on the discord, don't tell me."

[Magical]

Wow! That's preposterous (sp.) Should we not tell New players about in game chat as well, due to "the kind of comments" conveyed there? (can get pretty raunchy sometimes!) The siege discord voice chat is great for interacting with fellow players! Its how I met CharGar! Great stuff! Everyone is welcome!

[CharGar]

95% of discord is vice.  Vice hates Gilfane and is very vocal about it.  I don't see any positives being said in discord about Gilfane.  Having said that, it's a great channel to get to know people, to get lots of info, both good and bad (hehe), having said that, with all of the Gilfane "fakes" out there, are we sure someone didn't make a fake icq with a Gilfane name?  Just something to think about. 

[Max Blackoak]

95% of discord is vice.

Let's stick to facts here:

The Siege discord has 153 members so far. 18 of which are VICE members.

Vice hates Gilfane and is very vocal about it.

We don't hate Gilfane. Some of us don't like some of GIL's members. So what? I'm pretty sure the feeling is mutual. Same goes for being vocal about personal opinions - it goes both ways. Big deal.


The public Siege discord is NOT a VICE discord. We have our own private server that is for members only (surprise, surprise!).
The Siege discord is meant to help people get in touch with other Siege players on various levels (text and voice chats). I'm sorry to disappoint but there is no hidden agenda or conspiracy in the background.
Noone is forced to join or use this - if you don't like it that's alright, don't use it then.

Just because some people express opinions on there that you don't like doesn't mean this is a server that was created for the sole purpose of bashing GIL. Also why should it be other people's job to say good things about Gilfane? If you wish to say good things about your guild, go ahead and do it yourselves, why demand other people do that for you? (Matter of fact the other day someone did say good things about GIL and he's not even a member of your guild...so your statement about not seeing anything positive being said about GIL is not entirely true either)

[Torin]

The Discord Server as it is there has not only a voice function there, but also a board.

There is a big difference about "talking" in Gen Chat... and writing something on a board.

In Gen Chat a comment disappears after several seconds, on boards it stays for ever. - On Siege stratics board there are moderators, which from my "gut feeling" are neutral and observing boards and deleting posts, which are going to far in one or the other direction.

And as I told you in my ICQ: I like the idea of a public discord server. - But the admins on that server are not considered as neutral to me.

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To add here: It was me Torin aka Nirot aka Joline Maza, who wrote a personal message to Shalimar on ICQ.
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And even that I am in GIL guild,.. as owner of the hub, ... I try to stay as neutral as I can.
I don´t have a problem to be killed by VICE outside the hub. I never try to be rough or impudently to anyone.
(I remember only 1 time in the last 3 years, where I said to Bo he has be a big butt, but that was all)
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But as long as I can´t see that those discord board bashing on Gil is stopping. I will not consider that discord server as a discord server for the public.
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My last point: I did not put this on public. - I started the ICQ conversation with you Shalimar as you are admin of that server and as you are leading the "NEW" guild.

I don´t think this discussion is bringing anything forward on any public board. - I more expect that now from both sides people start to jump on that thread and bringing up hate and rage to this, which I do not want.

@all: I will not comment more on this in public. - I would love to further on discuss/argue this with Shalimar on ICQ. So stop replying on this thread.

[iron spider]

It is honestly all a bit petty, including gen chat content 10-fold. I have logged on the discord channel a few times, not much, and I'm aware that it is admin'd by VICE. However, I haven't got the feeling it is geared, in any way, to be anti-GIL or any guild/style for that matter. I'm 2 months new to playing Siege ever and as far as I've experienced, for some reason, there is GIL bashing in game by VICE as well as some non-VICE(as well as VICE bashing). 
            There is some helpful content on the discord channel, including some template advice... trading tabs specified for that function... voice and text board that can help players communicate and meet as well.  I sense a weird balance community wise on Siege, unfortunately, seeming to be stemmed from lack of overall active population.  People get bored, it's a more competitive and risky shard format, you almost Have to have someone to not like to keep it interesting. The channel has probably caused certain odd alliances to form, but that could happen in 1 of many ways. That's probably the extent of it, though.  Overall, I think the gossip shit can take a hike, including what I've seen from VICE, non-VICE, and a lot of the SP population that chooses to engage in public chat communication. None of that type of behavior breeds for an enticing environment towards new people who want to grow here, from any side. This is especially when it reveals how few known rivalries exist, which really shrinks the server down, making it feel limited. I want to make it clear I have not witnessed any GIL members portray this attitude or behavior(except this thread), as I have not seen them engage in much public chat at all(this wasn't public).  I have only seen them communicate with eachother or in trade, Joline build/service/tour the public hub that is helpful to all who choose to use it, and host public auction with every player welcomed, which I think takes organization and is great. It's a fair point of concern Joline but I don't think you're quite accurate with the discord thing, people just like to hate the ones who have it better than them, that may be GIL. I don't find that to be SP discord exclusive, haven't actually seen it much there at all. 
            I think we all desire a steady population influx as to see the server/game stay 'alive' and well circulated.  The discord does not go against this, nor does it unbalance the players who join it(as far as I can tell) but the rest of the talk does.  Shalimar/NEW's influence and help to fresh players has been apparent and a nice idea on a rugged shard.  I don't think the discord shout serves as a point in the wrong direction.  Just a newer player's two cents, can take it or leave it.

[Shalimar]

@Torin  You will not have further discussions or arguments with Shalimar on ICQ about this non-issue, because I am not interested in discussing a public Siege discord with you in private, but feel free to discuss or argue it here - in public - for all to read and participate.

Max started the Siege discord as a service to the shard, that is the reason he is the owner of it.
The reason he made a NEW admin is because I took an interest and I got involved in promoting the Siege public discord.
Perhaps if one of your own guild mates took an interest and got involved GIL would have an admin on Siege discord as well.

What I would be interested in would be having Becca and Max get together and sort out some of the real issues between GIL and Vice.

[Max Blackoak]

What I would be interested in would be having Becca and Max get together and sort out some of the real issues between GIL and Vice.

I'm open to that.
Feel free to contact me any time Becca. Be it on discord, a pm here or on Stratics or a walk and talk in game.

[Tjalle]

What was the purpose of this thread if not to attempt to name and shame?
It seems the "neutrality" has a cap after all.

To be clear, I have nothing against this thread but let´s just call it for what it is.

And why are ye speaking in third person, Shal? *raises eye brow*

[Shalimar]

Very simple Tjalle.

Torin said:'I would love to further on discuss/argue this with Shalimar on ICQ.'

I replied:'You will not have further discussions or arguments with Shalimar on ICQ about this non-issue, because I am not interested in discussing a public Siege discord with you in private, but feel free to discuss or argue it here - in public - for all to read and participate.'

It is called a paraphrase.

Notice, Tjalle, this was the only, sole, single, solitary instance I used the term. You can let your eyebrow come back down now.

[LennyM95]

The only thing I learned from this thread is never to talk to Shalimar in private because it is likely that conversation will be posted.

[Bo]

[Becca]

I would be open to a discussion between Max and myself. My icq is 56183473. this is the best way to get in touch with me to arrange the details.

[Tjalle]

Very simple Tjalle.

Torin said:'I would love to further on discuss/argue this with Shalimar on ICQ.'

I replied:'You will not have further discussions or arguments with Shalimar on ICQ about this non-issue, because I am not interested in discussing a public Siege discord with you in private, but feel free to discuss or argue it here - in public - for all to read and participate.'

It is called a paraphrase.

Notice, Tjalle, this was the only, sole, single, solitary instance I used the term. You can let your eyebrow come back down now.

You also did it in the title.
What was the purpose of this thread, Shal?

[Shalimar]

Very simple Tjalle.

Torin said:'I would love to further on discuss/argue this with Shalimar on ICQ.'

I replied:'You will not have further discussions or arguments with Shalimar on ICQ about this non-issue, because I am not interested in discussing a public Siege discord with you in private, but feel free to discuss or argue it here - in public - for all to read and participate.'

It is called a paraphrase.

Notice, Tjalle, this was the only, sole, single, solitary instance I used the term. You can let your eyebrow come back down now.

You also did it in the title.
What was the purpose of this thread, Shal?

Meaning what? Branwyn and I are emulating Bo? Just look down the post list a little bit and you won't need me to explain.

Purpose of this thread: My intention to discourage any further sneaky, underhanded nonsense being sent to me.

Bonus of the thread: Becca and Max will speak about issues between GIL and VICE...win win.